Talking with a Chicago Legend

For 15 years Toni Preckwinkle has been Cook County’s Commission President. An impressive run and she has done impressive work.

Currently, Chicago is on the front line of a power struggle between the federal governments deploying ICE agents and National Guard troops in American Cities. As of this show’s release, a federal just has blocked the deployment of National Guard troops in Chicago. President Preckwinkle has called the possible deployments, “a dangerous and reckless abuse of power” and “it’s fear tactics it and illegal use of power dressed up as law and order.” She also spoke out in support of a state court judge’s ruling that ICE agents can not make arrests inside Chicago courthouses. She said, “ICE enforcement has become increasingly violent, inhumane and unlawful. These tactics are unacceptable and un-American.” Last week she signed an executive order banning ICE agents from working in or around any Cook County property, including staging areas or for making arrests.

Toni Preckwinkle is a leader. Listen to her updates on how she is delivering good government in Chicago.

Read Cook County Commission President Toni Preckwinkle’s statements about a judge’s decision to so far, not allow National Guard troops to patrol Chicago’s streets and her stand on ICE agents making arrests outside of Cook County courthouses.

Watch a press conference with Illinois Governor J.D. Pritzker, Chicago Mayor Brad Johnson and Commission President Toni Preckwinkle as they discuss potential National Guard deployment in Chicago and speak out against recent arrests by ICE agents.

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Executive Producers: David Martin, David Snyder, Jim Ludlow
Host/Reporter: David Martin
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Transcription

David Martin: This is the good government show.

Toni Preckwinkle: To initiate a medical debt relief program. We’ve put $9 million aside, and it helps residents pay off their medical debts. We picked medical debt because medical debt is the principal reason that people declare bankruptcy. 213,000 people have had almost $400 million. $382 million of medical debt wiped out. And the idea that we have people who don’t have access to good health care in the richest country in the world, I think is a shame on all of us.

I’m a history teacher, and I think the highest honor your fellow citizens can bestow upon you is elective office. And I try to be grateful for that opportunity every day. You can do a lot of good. As in, like, good, efficient. I always say that the job of an elected official is begging, wheedling, cajoling, apologizing for things you didn’t do and trying to work with people you can’t stand.

David Martin: On today’s episode, I talk with one of my government heroes. I’ve been lucky enough to talk many times with the president of the Cook County Commission, Toni Preckwinkle. She is truly a Chicago legend and she shows no signs of slowing down. Welcome to the Good Government show. I’m Dave Martin. First, help us share the message of good government by liking us and sharing us where we are.

We’re on Facebook, we’re on YouTube, Instagram and Blue Sky. Share this with your friends and review us where you’re listening and join our good government show community. Check out our website for the link. I’ve talked with President Preckwinkle a few times on this show, and I always enjoy catching up with her. She was the first black woman elected to her position.

She served 15 years in that role, and she’s made a huge difference in county government in Chicago. She’s championed a balanced budget, medical debt relief, health care overall, and she works to get guns off the street. She also has an income program for citizens. This past summer, she unveiled a program called the Cook County Wraparound Services for Survivors of Gun Violence.

It started with a $5 million grant to help survivors of gun violence. Overall, crime is down in Chicago, and getting the guns off the street has been a long time priority for the president. Just recently, at the age of 78, she announced she’s running again for her office. She says retirement is not an option. She calls being elected to office the highest honor you can bestowing someone in a democracy.

She also said if she wasn’t doing a current job, she’d find another way to serve the public. See why I like her? One of the issues the President Preckwinkle worked on is medical debt relief. She said that medical debts are the number one reason people get into bankruptcy. She outlined a program that helps people get out of medical debt.

It’s a good program that can help a lot of people and that friends and neighbors. That’s good government. So coming up, my conversation with a legend and our friend cook County Commission President Toady Price, Michael.

Engagement. We hear that all the time on the Good Government show, getting people involved in ideas, planning and projects. It makes government more effective. And that’s good government at the good government show. We use our own engagement tool called our that’s o you are our Co has created a way to engage people and create a community. Our co can create an app just for your city, your school, your community.

It’s an easy way to engage people and get immediate feedback. You get reliable data on when you can translate into action action your community agrees on. Here on the Good Government Show, we have our own our co-created community. Go to our website Good Government show.com and join it. Then you can join the conversation. Weigh in on what makes good government and give us your ideas.

Ideas that can help good government serve all of us. I mean, that’s what government is all about and good government anyway. Visit our code.com. That’s o u r.com and learn how they do it. And while you’re there, look a demonstration.

It was called The War to End All Wars. But it didn’t. Three word cousins, all kings, one from England, one from Germany and one from Russia blundered their way into a war, a completely avoidable war that left millions dead in the trenches across Europe. Good government show executive producer Jim Ludlow details the blunders, mistakes and bluster that started World War One that didn’t end all wars.

The book The Royal Cousins details the events and creates an alternative history. Imagine if World War One never happened. It didn’t have to. Just read it yourself. Download the book today on Amazon. It’s just $0.99 and a timely look at history.

Welcome to the Good Government show the voice of public service. I am very happy to have back with me a second time. Toni Preckwinkle, the president of the Cook County Board of Commissioners. Welcome back to the Good Government Show.

Toni Preckwinkle: Thank you so much for inviting me. And thank you for your good work.

David Martin: Thank you. We like to think we are. We are telling a story of good government in America, and you are one of the people that have been working on this, trying to deliver good government in Chicago, in Cook County for quite some time. I said it before, I’ll say it again. You’re a legend. And I know this is true because there are people behind hanging on to your every word.

Toni Preckwinkle: So.

David Martin: So you must be doing something right. Something right in Chicago. And what we wanted to do is I wanted to talk to you about a program that I know that you’ve made a real impact on in Cook County in Chicago. It’s a, medical debt relief bill. What does that mean? What is the medical debt relief bill?

Toni Preckwinkle: Sure. Well, first of all, let me begin with the origins of this. You know, I want to thank the Biden-Harris administration for the American Rescue Plan Act that gave resources to our cities, our counties, and our states to help recover from the pandemic and the economic impacts of the pandemic. And one of the things we chose to do with some of the resources that we received in Cook County was to initiate a medical debt relief program.

We put $9 million aside, and it helps residents pay off their medical debts.

David Martin: So $9 million, $9 million.

Toni Preckwinkle: What we put aside.

David Martin: That’s a lot of money.

Toni Preckwinkle: It’s a lot of money. Okay. And when we pick medical debt, because medical debt is the principal reason that people declare bankruptcy, and it disproportionately impacts communities of color, that is medical debt. And it leads to, first of all, people don’t secure or don’t seek additional care if they have medical debt. It’s an impediment to their, pursuing, health care.

It leads to stress and anxiety.

David Martin: Certainly. Paying bills always does.

Toni Preckwinkle: Yes. Right, right. You know, something that is looming out there?

David Martin: Is it is it kind of is it kind of thing where it’s it’s you go to the doctor and you get one bill and then that leads to a second bill. So is it, does it become cumulative quickly?

Toni Preckwinkle: And what often happens is after attempting to secure payment, the provider attempting to secure payment, they turn it over to a collection agency. The collection agency, of course, holds the individuals forever. And what we’ve done is cost money. Yeah, right. And what we’ve done is intervene in that process because the health care providers customarily sell their medical debt to the collection agencies for pennies on the dollar.

And so the way in which this works are partner undue medical debt, buys the medical debt from the providers, from the hospitals or from the medical practices and, and then wipes it out so they buy it at a rate comparable to the collection agencies. And instead of trying to collect it, they wipe it out.

David Martin: They just wipe it out.

Toni Preckwinkle: They wipe it out, they eliminate it. And they send people a letter saying, you know, your debt to the following institution has been paid off. You know, basically go forth and prosper.

David Martin: So where does the 9 million go, the money that you spend?

Toni Preckwinkle: Well, we have partnerships with Advent Health, vitality, Sinai Chicago, which is a safety net hospital, the University of Chicago Medicine, which is an academic hospital.

David Martin: So this is where folks go to get treatment.

Toni Preckwinkle: That’s right. Okay. So these are all places where people would have gotten care, could not pay their bills for whatever reason. The bills normally again would go to collection agencies. We buy the bills instead. That is undue medical debt. Our partner buys the bills and then wipes out the debt.

David Martin: So instead of paying it off, instead of sending it off, it’s cents on the dollar to a collection agency. They send it to the to you to Cook County, and you pay and you step in.

Toni Preckwinkle: They pay them and do medical debt. Yeah. Engages in partnerships with these organizations. And then they just sell their debt to undo medical debt instead of the collection agency.

David Martin: So how the $9 million is this money well spent?

Toni Preckwinkle: It has wiped out so far almost $400 million in medical debt for our residents.

David Martin: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. $9 million paid off for $100 million.

Toni Preckwinkle: Yeah, and the whole 9 million hasn’t been spent yet. Okay, okay. But so far, you’re.

David Martin: Listening in Chicago and you saw the debt. Call your call your office. Is that what I’m.

Toni Preckwinkle: Hearing as we work through undue medical debt? But for almost $400 million. So it’s 382 million, to be exact. Okay, so our million has been wiped out already. Not all the money’s been spent. And 213,000 of our residents have been beneficiaries of the program. 230, 213,000 people have had almost $400 million, $382 million of medical debt wiped out.

David Martin: Is there a loser in all this?

Toni Preckwinkle: I don’t think so. I mean, the health and hospital systems that are our partners would have sold it to collection agencies so that they instead they sell it under medical debt. And I’m doing medical debt, as I said, pays the debts on behalf of our residents. No, I mean, I think everybody wins. And we’re very grateful again, to our partners, AdventHealth Vitality Sinai, which is a safety net hospital, University of Chicago medicine, Loyola medicine, which our academic hospital.

David Martin: And how is this advantageous for them?

Toni Preckwinkle: Well, I think I think it’s good publicity for them.

David Martin: Okay, I heard that that’s who,

Toni Preckwinkle: You know, I the idea that they are prepared when they’re faced with with uncollectible debt, to partner with government and, are not for profit under medical debt to wipe out the debt for their, patients. I think it’s a really good thing and reflects well on them. And I’m hopeful that we can, over time, engage more health care providers to be partners to do this work.

David Martin: I’m going to put you on the spot, but I’m confident you’ll come through. Tell me a good story.

Toni Preckwinkle: You know, I can give you a couple of examples of people who, you know, have talked about what happened when they when.

David Martin: They I knew, I knew I could really put you on the spot.

Toni Preckwinkle: But I’m.

David Martin: Sure you’ve heard some pretty incredible stories from people who can, you know, who’ve said, you know, my God, this program changed.

Toni Preckwinkle: Everything. You know, what happens is people say, you know, look, I was really worried or was just kind of weighing on me, you know? And I didn’t want to go to the doctor or go to the hospital because I already had medical that I couldn’t pay. Right. And and now that I’ve gotten this, this health, this, this burden has been lifted, you know, and what they talk about is relief and gratitude.

David Martin: And have you had people who have said, you know, I didn’t get the medical care I needed because I had already incurred debt, and I couldn’t get the next level that was recommended to me.

Toni Preckwinkle: Mostly what we hear from people is their gratitude for wiping out the debt they had. I just honestly.

David Martin: Okay. And and that’s going to be a huge relief to someone who has what do you know what the typical amount of debt we’re talking about in per is per person?

Toni Preckwinkle: No, I can’t tell you that. Okay. All I know is the is the sort of grand total okay for our 213,000, county residents. And again, it’s almost $400 million.

David Martin: Is this something people talk to you about when they see you out in the city?

Toni Preckwinkle: No. You know, what I hear about more is what we’re going to talk about next, which is the guaranteed income program.

David Martin: All right.

Toni Preckwinkle: But let me just come back to this, you know. Sure. I believe that health care is a right, and we’re the richest country in the world. And the idea that we have people who don’t have access to good health care in the richest country in the world, I think is a shame on all of us. But we’re not at the place where we’re prepared to talk about universal health care.

So those of us who believe in that have to do things kind of at the margins, and this is one of the things we can do at the margins, try to relieve the burden of medical debt on our residents.

David Martin: And generally speaking, what’s the what’s the reaction from the people, the residents of Cook County?

Toni Preckwinkle: Well, when I talk about this program, you know, people say, Amen, okay.

David Martin: That’s that’s pretty good.

Toni Preckwinkle: Yeah.

David Martin: You know, that’s a nice endorsement.

Toni Preckwinkle: Yeah. No, I mean, I think people are surprised that government is doing this and grateful, because it’s such an obvious thing, the obvious way to try to help people.

David Martin: Well, it does sound like good government.

Toni Preckwinkle: Does it. It. Yeah, it does sound like good government.

David Martin: How did you come up with this?

Toni Preckwinkle: You know,

David Martin: Is this something that people have been saying, here’s a problem, here’s a problem, here’s a problem all throughout?

Toni Preckwinkle: Well, here’s here’s the thing. I mean, when we got our American Rescue Plan act resources and the city of Chicago got $2 billion, the county of cook, in which Chicago’s located, of course, Chicago to suburbs got 1 billion. And the state of Illinois got 16 billion. So, you know, God bless my chief of staff with that of Heinz Turner.

You know, she said, look, let’s have a process for trying to figure out how we’re going to spend this money instead of just going off and spending it on a bunch of one offs. Right. So we spent a year, we talked to our staff, we talked to our commissioners. We had town hall meetings. We had a survey that we, distributed to our to our residents.

We talked to the people that we work with as our vendors or partners in various parts of county government, and we came up after a year with a plan. So basically, we spent the first year we put the money in the bank. We spent the first year trying to figure out systematically what it made sense to spend the money on.

And one of the things that came up was the ways in which our residents were challenged financially, not just by the pandemic, but the ways in which the pandemic had compounded, complicated, their, their financial situation. And so medical debt was was an obvious way to, to try to help people eliminating medical debt. Another was a guaranteed income program.

David Martin: And well, before we get to that, I want to ask you one question.

Toni Preckwinkle: Just like I didn’t answer your question from from. So one of our two of our.

David Martin: I trusted you. You interrupted me.

Toni Preckwinkle: We’re we’re good even. Okay, so. So Nick did a coffee and Amara Hennigan were two of our junior staff people. And they had heard about, the medical debt program, which, which philanthropy had engaged in before. Okay. I think we were the first government entity to to.

David Martin: You’re a pioneer and a legend.

Toni Preckwinkle: I’m not sure about that, but so I gotta I got to give credit to two junior staff people next to the coffee and Mara Hennigan who said this is something philanthropy is doing this. We should do it as government. So that’s where it came from.

David Martin: Talk to the listeners out there, hopefully, who are other county commissioners and other mayors and other people in government, was this hard to do? Give them a roadmap, share a best practice?

Toni Preckwinkle: Sure. Get in touch with and do medical debt.

David Martin: Okay. Yeah.

Toni Preckwinkle: We we’re not in the business of of this kind of philanthropy. Yeah. And so we found a partner that was and undue medical debt is that partner. And they can they can enter into an intergovernmental agreement with undue medical debt. Do the same kind of thing.

David Martin: Was it hard.

Toni Preckwinkle: No.

David Martin: Why isn’t everyone doing it.

Toni Preckwinkle: I can’t answer that question. And I’m not sure. Frankly, it wouldn’t occurred to me if my, my two staff people had come and said, this is what we gotta do. What do you have good people working.

David Martin: For your son?

Toni Preckwinkle: Well, you know.

David Martin: It’s all smoke.

Toni Preckwinkle: Is it? It’s it’s an argument. Oh, look.

David Martin: At the people standing behind.

Toni Preckwinkle: It.

David Martin: Said, I know you. You’re tall.

Toni Preckwinkle: So it’s an argument for, you know, listening to your own staff. Okay. And for, especially the younger staff, people sometimes don’t get, don’t get attended to, let’s put it that way, in the way they should. So anyway, these two young people came up with the idea and we pursued it.

David Martin: Well, everyone knows everybody who is in the county government is in for the money and the fame. So now you just you just tell to with both. I’m sure this is the school, right? No, no. All right. We’ll move.

Toni Preckwinkle: On. If you if you’re looking for fame and money, a government isn’t the place to go. But anyway.

David Martin: Sorry to hear that. Well, you know, you people know who you are. So the other thing that.

Toni Preckwinkle: I’ve been in public life for like, 30 years, so.

David Martin: That’s incredible. Well, you’re only 29.

Toni Preckwinkle: Right? That’s right.

David Martin: So the other thing I wanted to talk to you about, which is another program that you’ve able to to get some speed on, is a guaranteed income program. And I know this is something that people are doing around the nation where they’re giving people an income and I think one of the things I want to talk about is this we’re not giving them like an outrageously huge salary.

What is the purpose of a guaranteed income, the dollars that we give them, what’s the point of it?

Toni Preckwinkle: Yeah. Well, I think you have to look at it as sort of a supplement that enables people to kind of be on an even financial keel and not be overwhelmed by the kind of emergencies that we all face sometimes, you know, the brakes go out on the car or the kid needs, you know, dental care or, you know, there’s a hole in the roof or something.

I mean, you know, the kinds of things that just happen to you. Yeah. But if you if you don’t.

David Martin: Start now, my daughter got her car hit.

Toni Preckwinkle: Yeah. Right. Okay. And there’s a deductible on your insurance. Yes. Okay.

David Martin: Right. Yes. This I’m talking.

Toni Preckwinkle: With. Yes. So, so sometimes those things just put people in a downward financial spiral. You know, if you can’t afford to get your brakes fixed, maybe you can’t drive your car. You can’t get to work. I mean, just, you know, a nice job. Yeah. And, you know, if you don’t get the rust and do more damage, it just it gets worse.

It doesn’t get better. Right? If you don’t fix it. So. And I think, you know, half of the people in this country can’t afford a $400 emergency. You know, we just don’t. People don’t have a lot of, savings to meet the challenges of the day. So, our program and let me just say, hundreds of thousands of people applied for our program.

We ended up with, 3250 in the program, 3250 people in the program, and they got $500 a month for two years. And we started the program in December of 2022.

David Martin: Okay.

Toni Preckwinkle: December of 2022.

David Martin: And so is this. So are you is there a second generation now that’s.

Toni Preckwinkle: Well, it wrapped up in January this year. There was a little bit of a roll roll out of the program, but the first checks went out in December. We’re working with the University of Chicago Inclusive Economy Lab. And by the way, I think it’s really important to have, I’m tempted to say, a prover, but to have an academic institution as a partner that looks at the program and tries to figure out what impact it made.

And for the University of Chicago Inclusive Economy Lab, they did this in the way you do a medical study. They had the participants in the program, and then they had people with similar characteristics. Excuse me, we’re in a control group. Okay. So then they’re going to compare the results of the people who are in the control group and the people who participated in the program, $500 a month, 3250 individuals for two years.

David Martin: Did you hear any stories about how this affected the folks who received the money?

Toni Preckwinkle: Yeah. I mean, there’s young, one young woman that I talked to who had a baby, and she was in school, pursuing, I think, a nursing degree. And this enabled her to, continue her education without trying to work part time so she could do well in school.

David Martin: Did you graduate? You know, did you follow up.

Toni Preckwinkle: In two years? Yeah, I can tell you. But she was in the midst of that of that nursing program. Right. And this this was kind of the the little bit of extra resources that enabled her to to feel more comfortable being in school and, and, and, and knowing that she could do well, and, and.

David Martin: So the pay back the dividend on $500, you know, a month over two years. Compare that to a, a nurse working, helping everyone else, you know, the right there’s no question that the money balances out more than balances out.

Toni Preckwinkle: Right. And I talked to a gentleman who, was trying to care for his his elderly mother and, ended up not being able to work himself and just having a little bit extra money so that he could take care of her mother during the time of her illness, even though he was not able to work and care for her at the same time, was really helpful to her.

So, you know, there are lots of we have a lot of unpaid caregivers in this country, and it was one usually they’re women, frankly, caring for either, parents or or sibs or whatever. But in this case, it was a young man who was caring for his mother and enabled him in this difficult period in her life, to be with her on a full time basis, for which she was, you know, very, very grateful.

So but there are lots of ways in which folks, found this, this extra support useful. And again, there were no, no strings attached. You could use it in whatever way you want it. And, you know, I think there’s been a history in this country, unfortunately, of not having the same confidence in people who, are struggling as the rest of us, not thinking that they’re going to use the money for food and shelter and, tutoring for their kids in the same way we would, but that somehow they use it in some different way.

And and what we saw is that, again, people use the money in the same way any of the rest of us would use the money.

David Martin: And new tires, add new brand.

Toni Preckwinkle: New shares, a new brakes and. Right.

David Martin: Yeah.

Toni Preckwinkle: Or the deductible on the car insurance when your kid gets in an accident. Yes.

David Martin: We have to look into that. There are people who would argue that just giving money away is a bad idea. It removes someone’s incentive to work harder or make more money. What’s your answer to that?

Toni Preckwinkle: Most of the people who are in this program are working already, so it’s not as if, you know, we’re supporting people who are not working. And many of the people who are not working are not working as a result of an illness. I mean, if you were.

David Martin: Schooling.

Toni Preckwinkle: Or school, you know, the young mother who’s now able to go to school and not not worry about, you know, the financial situation. So we have to have more confidence in each other, you know, and, and I think that what we’ll see and again, it’ll be this spring, in April when the University of Chicago Inclusive Economy Lab provides the, results of their review and analysis, and we figure out how to proceed, because I’ve committed we’ll continue to do this.

David Martin: Do you think there are changes afoot in the program?

Toni Preckwinkle: Oh, it depends on what they tell us. Yeah.

David Martin: No preliminary, indications of.

Toni Preckwinkle: You know.

David Martin: How it’s going.

Toni Preckwinkle: No, I frankly, I haven’t heard from them. Okay. We’re just going.

David Martin: To have to come back. We’re going to talk about.

Toni Preckwinkle: I’ll be happy to do that. Good. In January, the program concluded. So it’s just been, you know, a month or so that they that the program has come to an end. But what we said we’d continue it on. I heard today at a presentation by, counties for, you know, basic, basic income that there are places in the country where they’re doing things like targeting, young people who are aging out of foster care or targeting people who are, coming out of carceral and coming out of our prisons or jails.

David Martin: And so programs like that around the nation.

Toni Preckwinkle: Right. And so, you know, I want to see, for example, what kind of impact those programs had in relation to our program, which was just general. It wasn’t targeted to any particular, demographic.

David Martin: So the program is going to change and grow a little bit, you suspect?

Toni Preckwinkle: Well, the program may change, but I, I gave some examples of of things we might consider as either add ons or, ways where a more focused or targeting targeted program may have a greater impact. But I don’t know what the results are going to be because we haven’t seen I mean.

David Martin: With I we’ll talk about that in the future. I know you have been a very strong advocate in Chicago, for gun control and trying to get guns off the street. Have you made any progress? How’s it going?

Toni Preckwinkle: Well, you know, we’ve come out of just a little bit of a different way. So what I’d like to talk about is starting in about. I’ve been in this job for since 2010. So at this point is 15 years. One of the first things we started on was trying to get the actors in the public safety arena together.

So our, our chief judge, our sheriff, our state’s attorney, our public defender, our clerk of the court all meeting regularly to talk about how we can improve our justice system. And one of the things that we started doing as a county, we’d always spent a lot of money on jails and courts, by county, spend money on on public safety, mostly in that way.

And we said, we’ve got to do something different. You know, we’ve got to stem the flow of people into our criminal justice system. We’ve got to go upstream a little bit. And so we started investing money in community based organizations that worked with at risk youth that worked with people returning from carceral. And, again, our prisons and jails coming back into the community.

That’s pretty much everybody who goes to jail comes out. Very few people get life sentences. And then what do they do when they get out and, and working also with groups that, were on the ground in communities trying to stem the violence, community violence interrupters intervention. And so the county began to fund those kind of organizations is, again, we’re going upstream from from detention in our jail and in interactions with the police to try to see that people don’t get into their criminal justice system, aren’t enmeshed in that.

And and we’ve been putting tens of millions of dollars and especially resources from the American Rescue Plan Act, Arpa, into that work.

David Martin: Are you spending the people’s money wisely in Cook County?

Toni Preckwinkle: You know, I, I believe so and and good. You know, here’s the thing. It’s much better. It’s just like health care, right? It’s much better to spend money on trying to keep people well than trying to treat them when they’re sick. Right? Okay. So if we invest money in young people, if we invest money in people who are returning from from our prisons and jails back into the community, if we invest money in them at that point, it’s much easier than trying to deal with them when they’re already involved in the criminal justice system and have had some, some made maybe some wrong choices, complicated decisions, whatever.

It’s much better to do the preventive work. And that’s whether it’s true of health care or violence. It’s the same thing you should invest in, in the prevention. And some of that is with individuals. And some of that is community building.

David Martin: And what I hear you saying, if correct me, if I’m wrong, is the money you spend upfront is going to be less than the money you have to spend downstream.

Toni Preckwinkle: Yeah, it costs us. You know, the last time I checked, it was like $62 a day to keep somebody in jail, right? You know, if you spend $62 a day, $62 a day on, you know, tutoring or after school activities or whatever, you keep a lot of kids, you know, on the on the straight and narrow, you know.

Right. But but if you’re trying to just if you’re all you’re focused on is, is what happens when people are in the jail, you know, you haven’t you haven’t paid attention again to the prevent it. The preventive side of this.

David Martin: All right. And we’re going to come back and we’re going to hear your true thoughts on government.

Toni Preckwinkle: Don’t up. I haven’t given you my true thoughts so far. We’re good at work, where you’ll they’ll say.

David Martin: Once you wrap up this episode of The Good Government Show, give a listen to our friends over at Good News for lefties. This daily podcast highlights news stories that show there’s more good news out there. Other people in government are really trying to do the right thing. That’s good news for lefties. Listen, we’re listening now.

After you get done with this episode, hear more good government stories with our friends at How to Really Run a City for mayors Kassim Reid of Atlanta and Michael Nutter of Philadelphia, and their co-host, journalist and author Larry Platt talked with guests and other mayors about how to really get stuff done in cities around the nation. Check them out where you’re listening now or through their nonprofit news site, The Philadelphia Citizen.

Dot org slash podcasts. All right. I think you’ve done this before. This is our questionnaire. We always start with the hardest question. First, define good government. What is good government and Cook County.

Toni Preckwinkle: You know, what I always say 15.

David Martin: Years to think of the answer that.

Toni Preckwinkle: I, you know, I try to remember this, I’m a history teacher, and I think the highest honor your fellow citizens can bestow upon you is elective office. And I try to be grateful for that opportunity every day. You can do a lot of good as, like the decision.

David Martin: All right. When when people don’t like what you and your fellow commissioners are doing, what should they do?

Toni Preckwinkle: How they should talk to us? I mean, I I’m, I return phone calls, I return emails, I go out to community meetings, along with my commissioners. I have 17 commissioners. We are available to the public. And it’s important that you communicate with your elected officials that that doesn’t mean that they’re always going to agree with what you have to say, but they owe it to you to listen to you.

And I try to do that. But I always tell people as well, you know, I’m prepared to listen to you that. But that doesn’t mean that I’m going to do what you want. So I promise I will.

David Martin: Sometimes I what I have to point out, the Terra staff’s a fellow commissioner who’s been out of the show before is sitting right beside you, dotting with everything you said. And when she said, talk to me, she said, yep, yep, yep. So I guess I guess you’re to agree with that. All right. Good. The good government show, we are the voice of public service.

David Martin: Why did you decide to get into public service?

Toni Preckwinkle: Well, first of all, I. The joke I tell is that when I was a little girl, I wanted to be a cowgirl. And after I decided that probably wasn’t going to be something I could do for a living. There’s.

David Martin: Lots of girls in Chicago.

Toni Preckwinkle: Okay? I want to be a teacher. So I was a teacher for ten years. In my view, teaching as public service. I worked for not for profit organizations, and eventually I ran for office and won on my third track, teaching the work I did for not for profits. I think it’s all public service. And I as I said, I’m grateful for the opportunities I’ve had, to serve the people that I represent.

David Martin: Who inspires you? You inspire others. Who inspires you?

Toni Preckwinkle: You know, when I was teaching the soldier how old I was, I was teaching in the 1970s, teaching American history. And it was at the time in which Richard Nixon was being impeached. And I would go home and watch the, the news of the day. And the person who really impressed me on the Judiciary Committee was Barbara Jordan.

I thought she was smart and thoughtful. And just insightful. I was really impressed with her. And I, you know, I thought one of these days when I grow up, that’s what I’d like to be. Somebody is smart and thoughtful, and committed to public service as she is.

David Martin: All right, well, people would say, you have done that. You’ve been 15 years on the commission. You’re president of the Cook County Board of Commissioners. What should people know about government from the inside? What do you know that they don’t know?

Toni Preckwinkle: First of all, that the people who do it are just like them, you know? I mean, we have this idea that politicians are somehow a separate class of folks just like everybody else. I mean, you know, we have, we have kids who drive us crazy and, you know, challenges like everybody else. My kid hasn’t been in a car accident lately, but it, like, good.

All right. You know, the good people who struggle to to do a very difficult job every day. And unfortunately, I think in this country, public service has gotten more difficult rather than less. Partly because the country’s so polarized and partly because, I think there’s less respect and confidence in government. And there is when I started this work in the 1990s.

David Martin: What’s the best part of the job?

Toni Preckwinkle: You know, I was an alderman in the city of Chicago. I was a, a local elected official, in the city for almost 20 years. And, what I loved about my job, what I still like is, the opportunity to help people. And the difference is, when I was an alderman, I knew the people I was helping because I saw them on the street, or they showed up in my office, or they call on the telephone in this job.

Everybody listen to you. In this job. Yeah, you can help a lot more people, but you don’t know them personally. So it’s a little harder.

David Martin: So that’s the that’s the biggest challenge.

Toni Preckwinkle: Well, no, the biggest challenge is that the, the number of actors who you need to engage with is, a lot greater the higher up the food chain you go politically. So I always say that the job of an elected official is begging, wheedling, cajoling, apologizing for things you didn’t do and trying to work with people you can’t stand.

And that pool of people is a lot bigger the higher up the food chain you go.

David Martin: Wow, okay, well, never heard it put quite that way. So thanks for that. You know, you said you started off as a teacher. Did you always see yourself going into public service?

Toni Preckwinkle: No. But I worked.

David Martin: In the cowboy thing, I forgot, so.

Toni Preckwinkle: Yeah. Cowgirl. Yeah. No, when I, when I, when I was in high school, I, I decided I want to be a teacher, and I and I enjoyed that. But before I ever had a real job other than babysitting, I worked in political campaigns. So I’ve been working in political campaigns since I was 16. So at some point along the line, I decided I could run for office myself and not just help other people.

David Martin: What’s the undiscovered best thing about Chicago?

Toni Preckwinkle: Oh, God. It’s beautiful. The lakefront? Yeah. The architecture, the, variety and vibrancy of our neighborhoods. Since I’m a Cook County person, I have to say, you know, the vibrancy and variety of our communities, not just the neighborhoods in the city of Chicago.

David Martin: Usually ask this question, what’s the signature dish of Chicago? What’s the thing that people should have when they come there? Please don’t talk about Chicago pizza. I’m from Brooklyn. I have a problem.

Toni Preckwinkle: Yeah. You. You don’t like Chicago pizza?

David Martin: I’m a Brooklyn guy. I have New York pizza. Come on, you’re pizza.

Toni Preckwinkle: You know, like deep dish.

David Martin: Now, you know, do you? Is that. Is that your thing?

Toni Preckwinkle: I can’t say it’s my thing, but I do like deep dish pizza. Okay. A lot of calories, though.

David Martin: What’s the what’s the what’s the. That’s what’s the best. If you go to Chicago what’s the best. What’s the say you should try. What’s the ultimate Chicago dish?

Toni Preckwinkle: The ultimate you got? I can’t say that my favorite neighborhood restaurant is Pizza Capri. And they serve Italian food. But anyway, I hope there’s also a great restaurant in my neighborhood, Virtu, which is a young African-American chef, that started a restaurant in my neighborhood. So those are my two favorite.

David Martin: I think Tara Steps has been there. She’s just out of your head.

Toni Preckwinkle: A virtue. She’s been a virtue.

David Martin: Okay, so what do you do for fun?

Toni Preckwinkle: So I’m a history teacher. I like, antique shows and estate sales and rummage sales.

David Martin: Do you do that? Do you see that?

Toni Preckwinkle: So I go to those things? Yes.

David Martin: Okay, cool. And when you do, when you run into people that they recognize you.

Toni Preckwinkle: Yeah. They say, what are you doing right. Take it occasionally I tell them occasionally I give myself a day off. Yeah.

David Martin: This is the good government. Shall we like to end this note on a on a good government project? Tell me about something that you’re really proud of, that you’ve been able to pull off.

Toni Preckwinkle: Well, again that work a year of talking to people, trying to gather information about what we should be doing, what we heard universally is that the county needs to invest more in behavioral health services, that historically, our system focused on physical health and not behavioral health, and that we really needed, especially because of the anxiety and depression and isolation that, went along with the pandemic.

We needed to focus more on behavioral health. And so we’ve made tremendous investments in our health and hospital system in a department of behavioral health staffing that up, and then grants to community based organizations that are doing that good work.

David Martin: Toni Preckwinkle, the president of the Cook County Board of Commissioners, Chicago, Illinois. It is a pleasure to always talk with you and hear that you are maintaining the high standard of good government in Cook County. Thanks for that. Thanks for your work, and thanks for coming back on the show. It’s good to have you back.

Toni Preckwinkle: Thanks, David.

David Martin: Thank you. Want to hear more about good government? Check out another show I host leading Iowa Good Government in Iowa cities. I host the show with Brad Cavanaugh, mayor of Dubuque, Iowa, and the immediate past president of the Iowa League of Cities. Together, we talk to leaders in Iowa cities. We talk about what works and what good government looks like in Iowa.

Join us right here. We listening now that’s leading Iowa. Good government in Iowa. Cities. I really like her definition of government, especially the last part of her explanation. And you work with people you can’t stand. The most important part of that is you work with people you can’t stand. That’s the only way we can all get good government.

It’s to work together. I hope she’s successful. Talking about her medical debt relief program. Look at the numbers on $9 million. Spend, wiped out nearly 400 million in debt, and help 213,000 people talking about guaranteed income. She explained it this way. Half the people in the country can’t afford a $400 emergency. Her plan six is that that’s truly good government in action.

I like when she said we need to work at the margins, doing the things you can do to make an impact where you can, with what you can work with. Another great conversation with one of the best in government, Cook County Commission President Toni Preckwinkle. I look forward to talking to her again. That’s our show. Thanks for listening.

Please like us and share this with your friends and reviewers right here. We’re listening to it right now. Check out our website Good Government show.com for extras. There’s lots of stuff there. Help us keep telling stories of good government and action everywhere. Join us again for another episode right here. I’m Dave Martin and this is the Good Government show.

The Good Government show is a Valley Park production. Jim Ludlow, Dave Martin, that’s me and David Snyder are the executive producers. Our show is edited and produced by Jason Stershic. Please subscribe, then share and like us and review us. That’s the best way to make sure we’re able to keep telling these stories of our government working for all of us.

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**This transcription was created using digital tools and has not been edited by a live person. We apologize for any discrepancies or errors.