Political dirty deals for Commissioner Jerica Richardson (S3E17)

If you want to be inspired by the next generation of leaders listen to the conversation with Jerica Richardson of Cobb County, Georgia, which is suburban Atlanta. Before she took her seat she did the research on what a county commissioner does. Now she’s doing it, just listen.


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Jerica Richardson: I will tell you, we are managing a list of about 200 different goals and initiatives. And within the first two years, we’ve been able to close out about 30% of them. There’s always a lot of discussion about the judicial, the legislative and the executive branches. But really keying in on the actual relationship that exists between the federal, state and local is it’s important.

It’s important for the vitality of our communities and for the longevity of this of this entire country. One of the things I will say is public service can be very relaxing when you build real relationships with the community. Every day is a blessing, even though there are so many challenges. You wake up with the ability to open the door of access for so many people and and they trust you.

If you build the relationships the right way and there’s really nothing better than that.

David Martin: Welcome to the Good Government show. I’m Dave Martin. And you’re about to hear a conversation with Jericho Richardson, a county commissioner in Cobb County, and that’s suburban Atlanta, Georgia. Jericho has been a county commissioner for all of two years. At the time we talked to her in the spring of 2023. But that gives her a new perspective on government and what she sees as a newly elected official.

And just halfway through her term, she was hit with a new problem. Some redistricting put her home. That’s the house where she lives outside of her elected district. So, listen, as we discuss how this happened and how she’s dealing with that. Her job as a county commissioner is only a part time job. Her full time job is as a project manager with a credit services company.

She holds a biomedical engineering degree from Georgia Tech. She’s run political campaigns and she started her own business. We really like talking with new and younger elected officials, and she really has jumped into this job. And that’s something we really like to see. So in a minute, you’re going to hear my conversation with County Commissioner Jessica Richardson. And I hope you two will be inspired knowing that new commissioners are sitting in the ranks of elected officials.

I’ll have that conversation coming up after the break.

The good government show is sponsored by NACO. That’s the National Association of Counties County Governments, actually the oldest form of government in the United States. And it touches more people directly. Roads, highways, hospitals, schools, recycling, law enforcement, water and sewers. In most of the country, those services are maintained by the county that’s county government. Naco is a nationwide organization that represents all 3069 counties across the U.S. Naco helps county government work better together through things like sharing best practices.

Because when county government works well, well, that’s just good government.

Welcome to the Good Government show. This is a conversation with and right now we’re having a conversation with Jericho Richardson. If you would introduce yourself, tell us where you’re from, what your title in government is, and where you live.

Jerica Richardson: Sure thing. So my name is Jessica Richardson. As stated, I’m originally from New Orleans, but I’ve been living in Cobb County, Georgia for almost 20, 20 years. Yeah, since 2005. So we’re in there and represent part of Cobb County.

David Martin: And kind of an interesting story. What got you to Cobb County and to Atlanta?

Jerica Richardson: Yeah, On the heels of Hurricane Katrina and all of all of it came with that.

David Martin: What happens where you lived? Where are you living?

Jerica Richardson: And so New Orleans.

David Martin: Is.

Jerica Richardson: Is where the house was completely gone. Yeah, it’s there were walls, but that was.

David Martin: Really is the house been rebuilt? Is that having.

Jerica Richardson: Been back.

David Martin: There. You haven’t.

Jerica Richardson: No, no, we were no, we were staying there so but we when we moved to Georgia, that was the decision. And we re resettled in Georgia. I was 16 at the time.

David Martin: Okay. So you didn’t get a lot of choice, you know, But you haven’t been back to New Orleans, too.

Jerica Richardson: So we do go we do go visit, but just haven’t visited that that house. There wasn’t one that we owned. It was one they had rented out. And we go back down to visit the rest of my family. So my mom’s actually actually the youngest of ten. Oh, my. And so I have a very big family down there.

David Martin: Yes, you do.

Jerica Richardson: Everyone’s related. And yeah, so we would go down there every month, at least once a month. pre-COVID.

David Martin: All right. And have you been back since, I hope.

Jerica Richardson: Certainly.

David Martin: Certainly, yeah. All right. Uh, biggest difference between Atlanta, Georgia, New Orleans, Louisiana.

Jerica Richardson: Oh, there are a lot of differences, including including the legal structure.

David Martin: Okay.

Jerica Richardson: It’s probably the obvious one, but, I mean, there’s something unique about the culture in New Orleans, and I think it’s just tied to the history of how it was created and how it was settled and and just the different pieces there. Whereas Atlanta is truly a melting pot of a lot of different influences, and it’s special because of that.

So I, I absolutely enjoy it because it’s like a slice of America everywhere you go.

David Martin: Okay. How long have you been a county commissioner?

Jerica Richardson: Two years.

David Martin: Two years and counting. How’s it going?

Jerica Richardson: It’s been fascinating lately.

David Martin: What made you decide to run for office?

Jerica Richardson: Well, I knew that I could make a difference in this particular role as a Cobb County commissioner.

David Martin: We have. And this is your first ever in politics.

Jerica Richardson: All right. Well, definitely my first elected position, but I was not new to politics. All right. I worked on several other campaigns prior mayoral and state legislature and the school board is the whole time.

David Martin: Were you thinking, I know what I’m going to do when I. Right.

Jerica Richardson: Well, it was it was it was a little bit in in conversation with some of my peers at the time and some of those that have been clients, I guess you can refer to them as. But I had I read through the local legislation, saw all of the different powers that the county commissioner had, the full jurisdiction and when you think of, you know, power, water, soil, air, economic development, libraries, parks, roads, the list goes on and on.

I’m on one emergency police fire. There’s so much that could be done to help.

David Martin: You have a background in any of those things?

Jerica Richardson: Not in those things particularly, but certainly as a resident and certainly through relationships with the community. And then obviously from the perspective of a state legislator or a school board member or a mayor, but for me personally, it was certainly new territory being a commissioner.

David Martin: And what made you decide? I think that county commissioner is where I want to start my career in politics.

Jerica Richardson: Like I said, it was reading through the local legislature, through our local enabling legislation. It spells out exactly what could be done. And there were some things that I knew Cobb County and we were especially at that time. This was 2020 election year was the year that I got elected. Okay. And seeing the kind of seeing the way that disinformation would spread and how it has really broken apart a lot of our communities, I thought that there was something unique that I could bring the idea of bringing people together.

And so my message that I brought to the community was something I experienced coming off of the hills of Katrina. It was when we choose to love one another as opposed to be fearful of one another. We could come together and overcome any obstacle.

David Martin: So let’s hope so. That was the work continues.

Jerica Richardson: That was the whole thing.

David Martin: Now, we talked a little bit before we started this, the formal interview. I understand that your you have a map this year. You’re you have a sort of a tenuous hold on your job at your seat. Is that fair?

Jerica Richardson: It’s certainly a fascinating thing to watch.

David Martin: What what happens.

Jerica Richardson: So normally there is a process at the state delegation takes in creating maps, especially during census years. You’re required to every ten years. So look at the maps. But it is not limited to that. So maps can be looked at every year. We’re in a census since this year, and so the state delegation, they tend to go with the local delegation.

These are the state reps that are elected that represent a local jurisdiction like a county. Okay. So the Cobb County delegation, as in normal practice for since the beginning of Georgia’s creation, yes, they would develop a map. Well, in this particular this particular time, a couple of members outside of without the help of a delegation, decided they would create their own map.

And that map got placed, which included having my house outside of my district.

David Martin: Your house?

Jerica Richardson: My house.

David Martin: Was a personal.

Jerica Richardson: I would like to think not I think it’s just a matter of politics, Right? Any time you see redistricting politics comes into play, however, and.

David Martin: They know that was your house.

Jerica Richardson: Possibly I, I, I think there’s a lot to be discovered there. But. All right. But the issue that came about is because my house was drawn out of my district in the middle of my term, it meant that it would come into direct conflict with our residents, our residency clauses, which means I would have to resign two years early so I would not be able to fulfill my four year term.

And so this, of course, would set off a lot of constitutional issues.

David Martin: But you’re you’re two plus years into your term, Two.

Jerica Richardson: Two plus years now. Exactly. Here I am today.

David Martin: You’re still there.

Jerica Richardson: So the county did an action. We read through the Constitution as well. And the county attorney found that in lock in home rule, there is a provision that allows or permits a local jurisdiction to amend or appeal a local bill.

David Martin: Okay.

Jerica Richardson: So we amended the state legislatures map to the map that the local delegation had put together because it had already passed all of the constitutional apportionment requirements.

David Martin: So are you a lawyer? Are you are you well, familiar with legal briefs?

Jerica Richardson: You know, you just run across these things sometimes. They’re interesting, right? So in this situation, the Constitution was leveraged and I am clearly still here today, but certainly it is a hot topic of discussion.

David Martin: Are you confident you’ll be able to get through your your four year term?

Jerica Richardson: I hope so. For the sake of the Republic of Georgia.

David Martin: And if you run for reelection, are you going to have to go to a different district?

Jerica Richardson: No, no, not under the county’s map. Okay. Under the county’s map, I can finish my term and run for reelection every election.

David Martin: That must be sort of a kind of a dark shadow that just sort of looms over your shoulder.

Jerica Richardson: I tell you, is not on my bingo card for my first term in office.

David Martin: Fair enough. So other than trying to figure out where you live, what’s going on in Cobb County.

Jerica Richardson: So we’ve got plenty of issues, things that are probably very familiar to a lot of jurisdictions around, certainly the state and around the country, I’m sure. But housing availability, access to health care, transportation investments that we definitely need to key into. Okay. That’s really at the top of the docket. And certainly ARPA has been a big topic of discussion over the last year or so, working with the community partners to see what could be done as appropriate.

David Martin: And what are you hearing from the community? What are the things that they’re interested in?

Jerica Richardson: So a lot of it does fall under the economic development aspects and looking at different programs that can help facilitate those types of pipelines, whether it be with specific specific segments, communities, women’s groups, veterans, etc.. But I will say that the county in advance, there are some other aspects of ARPA that are specifically tied to public funds. Those are more tied around the courts, public safety and and infrastructure.

David Martin: And or any or any particular issues near and dear to your heart.

Jerica Richardson: Oh, there are plenty of places.

David Martin: Oh, I do.

Jerica Richardson: I do. I do.

David Martin: Do many.

Jerica Richardson: I will tell you we are managing a list of about 200 different goals and initiatives. And within the first two years we’ve been able to close out about 30% of them.

David Martin: All right. So progress.

Jerica Richardson: Yes, it is progress, but infrastructure is one of those big ones. We know that we have a huge climate impact to our infrastructure. The problem is, is where public infrastructure, we it’s private infrastructure. We run into a huge gratuities clause issue, which means we have really nice new infrastructure that connects to old infrastructure that no one can touch.

David Martin: Why?

Jerica Richardson: Because it’s private. So we are facing some really serious issues down the line If we don’t get ahead of it.

David Martin: Two years into the job, what is it about the job that you just kind of hit you out of left field? Like, Oh, I had no idea it was going to be like, you know.

Jerica Richardson: Curve has certainly been of interest in many different ways. I don’t know if you if if a listener is recall, but the world, the All Stars game that was supposed to come, then there was the entire issue with that and SB 202 and show that we lost that. That was in my district. Okay. We certainly had the World Series.

That was really exceptional. But it’s been a very interesting tango with the state legislature and looking at ways in which we can better partner, because there’s always a lot of discussion about the judicial, the legislative and the executive branches. But really keying in on the actual relationship that exists between the federal, state and local is it’s important. It’s important for the vitality of our communities and for the longevity of this of this entire country.

And if this map issue doesn’t bring that home more clearly, I don’t know what does. But it really is important that the checks and balances exists and that people are empowered with understanding how all of these different groups work together. Just like you mentioned with ARPA, when the president signs a check, if you’re not seeing those benefits in your community, it’s because of our level where the operational level.

David Martin: Okay. So being a Cobb County commissioner is not a full time job. You have a full time job.

Jerica Richardson: I do have a full time job.

David Martin: And it’s always something nice and easy when you’re like.

Jerica Richardson: I know, right? It’s so. So by law, the county commission is a part time job.

David Martin: But it really isn’t.

Jerica Richardson: The chair is a full time job. But yes, I’m one of the district commissioners, so therefore it is a part time, but it is my full time job.

David Martin: What is your full time job?

Jerica Richardson: I am a program manager at Equifax and they are wonderfully accepting of what I do to give back to the community.

David Martin: So it’s like I’ll be in Saturday morning. Sorry, I’m not going to be around Saturday afternoon.

Jerica Richardson: No, it’s honestly worked out extremely well to the point that most people aren’t even aware that I have, that I’m also an elected official.

David Martin: Yeah. So do you get time off? Days off? Do you relax?

Jerica Richardson: Do you know? I do. But one of the things I will say is public service can be very relaxing when you build real relationships with the community.

David Martin: Okay.

Jerica Richardson: Yeah, I. I have members over to my house all the time of the community. Just to maybe see them or talk about what’s what’s interesting. And. And it’s a friendship. It’s a relationship that exists between the local government and those that they represent.

David Martin: So we have a questionnaire that we’ve prepared and this will a sure way to get to the heart of where you and what you what your thoughts are on government. Are you ready for this?

Jerica Richardson: Okay, I’ll said these are easy.

David Martin: Some of these are okay, let’s do it. So you’re a county commissioner where you sit two years in to find good governance.

Jerica Richardson: Good government. I’ll say, you know the 8020 rule.

David Martin: Guy, explain it.

Jerica Richardson: Where, you know, you’ve got 80% of the work or what have you is equivalent to 20% of what’s left. And you also have the idea that 80% of the people might agree with you, 20% won’t. Right. It’s just a rule that’s pervasive in a lot of different areas. And so when it comes to governance, I really, really care to make sure that my community is as aware and understanding of the decisions that I’m making on their behalf, that it is truly a representative democracy or public.

Okay? And so good governance to me is predicated in that amount of transparency and leveling, level setting with your community, being honest, being forthright so that you can have complex conversations because there is no issue that comes across my desk. That simple.

David Martin: So how do you know if you’re providing good government? How do you hold yourself accountable to live up to that?

Jerica Richardson: I ask. I ask. We have surveys that go out. I do town halls. We actually have a quarterly report, town hall, where metrics get listed and we have North Stars as a community. I do an annual priority tour.

David Martin: And take that says she’s too young, she’s to do just what he’s doing. How do you take that?

Jerica Richardson: Is it something that can be turned into action or policy? We absolutely focus in on it. And I, I jokingly say I like to put people to work. Yeah. So if someone comes to me with a suggestion, she. Great. Do you want to work on that with me? Let’s work together and let’s, let’s make it happen.

David Martin: Say yes.

Jerica Richardson: Many of them do. So I actually have a lot of people that do a lot of things around.

David Martin: We have a lot of districts.

Jerica Richardson: We work together.

David Martin: Okay. How do people know if they’re getting good government? How does what what should they use as their yardstick to find out if you and the other commissioners are providing the government that they are looking for or asking for?

Jerica Richardson: I mean, it’s understanding. What are you expecting from from the person who you who you’ve elected? You know, on the campaign trail, People make a lot of promises right? How are they walking it out? How are you holding them accountable to what it is that they said they were going to do? And are you understanding of what it is that’s being asked?

And so it’s a it is a it is a two way street, but someone who is a true public servant is going to do everything in their power to reach out to as many people to connect.

David Martin: And if they’re not getting what they think they should be getting, if they think that you’re not living up to your expectations, their expectations of you, what should they do?

Jerica Richardson: Watch out. No, it is about letting you know. It is about letting you know because they’re a real representative.

David Martin: Democracy is something which.

Jerica Richardson: I have a lot of different avenues. Personally. But yeah, it can be.

David Martin: Some how to code. You said I.

Jerica Richardson: Did actually built a website just for my constituents. So all of the things are there for them. Okay, we have a lot of processes inside the office. I have a cabinet, a community cabinet with 27 members.

David Martin: I go in there, I just read comments as was actually just hard to know.

Jerica Richardson: I mean, I hear it all and the importance is, is acknowledging that everyone has a perspective that they’re bringing to the table.

David Martin: What would you like? I think you said it before. You said it’s you said government is complicated. What would you like people to know as a now a government insider, as a politician, what would you like people on the outside to know about government?

Jerica Richardson: It moves a lot faster than you think it does. And the main reason it feels like it moves slowly is because it’s such a transparent process. Every single decision has to be made before the public everything okay. And that’s very different from the corporate world.

David Martin: Yes, it is.

Jerica Richardson: So, you know, you’ll hear the question, well, why is it taking so long for this? It’s like because we had to approve the request. We had to approve the budget, we had to approve the bid. We had to approve all the statement of the bid. We had to approve the bid. We had to approve the design. We had everything, every single step.

David Martin: That sounds slow to me because.

Jerica Richardson: It’s your taxpayer dollars, but it’s fashion sense that it’s going as fast as it possibly can while still maintaining that balance of transparency.

David Martin: You said politics is something you’ve always sort of used as a hobby. Who are your political heroes? Oh, okay.

Jerica Richardson: I haven’t thought about that one as much. I just.

David Martin: I got to ask and I.

Jerica Richardson: Know, I know I, I think what I’ve shared with the I’ve shared, you know, my community is very inspirational. And it’s not just a tagline. It there’s actual story. And I am constantly inspired by my community, but also history in general. And if I were to because it’s hard to just pick out individuals because it’s a tapestry, but history itself, I know, I know the kind of sacrifices that my lineage has made for me to be able to exist at this point.

And so when I think about all of the different decisions and the backgrounds and ingenuity and creativity and collaboration and and even the wars that we’ve had to endure, there’s so much there to be inspired about and bring to the job every single day. I, I am one of those true believers that if you ignore history, you are doomed to repeat it.

David Martin: So your hero is everyone who has gone before you yourself. All right, Now, this is a harder question. Oh, boy. All right. Born in Louisiana, in New Orleans, 62, Atlanta, Georgia. You said that often you have, you know, friends, constituents over to your house for dinner. What do you make of that? What’s your what? Oh, what are you going to say in general?

I think I do it.

Jerica Richardson: But also, I’ll do the normal things, too, like salmon and steak. And, you know, I try to I try to dress it up.

David Martin: Yeah. You start with that. You say that’s, you.

Jerica Richardson: Know, when my ties my mother will actually join me for some this because she’s a fantastic cook is my 80% recipe job. You know, my mom is 100% there. And so she will also sometimes whip up some things by visiting your kids.

David Martin: You bake what what would you add?

Jerica Richardson: She’ll do a gumbo or something like that. Yeah. In her face, you know, all over better than mine.

David Martin: From crawfish.

Jerica Richardson: Crawfish to say her favorite shrimp to Facebook. Yeah. We’ll do shrimp or crawfish, you say.

David Martin: But you’re okay with it. Either way, whatever life makes you good weather, I’m.

Jerica Richardson: Good with.

David Martin: It. You you alluded to this a little bit. You said that it was just a hobby for you. Like were you you said you went to Georgia Tech. I think you were telling me your presence in class. There were, you.

Jerica Richardson: Know, no, I was okay. Well.

David Martin: Was a kid stuffing envelopes, knocking on doors.

Jerica Richardson: So the first campaign I worked on, I believe it was my sophomore year in college, and it was a mayoral race. Right. Any anyone good. And so all of those relationships along with the city council were also relationships. And then I said.

David Martin: Are you still in touch?

Jerica Richardson: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Really good. And matter of fact, the current mayor was one of my mentors when I was at Tech.

David Martin: Oh, not so good relationships.

Jerica Richardson: So you.

David Martin: Pick up the phone and you can say, Hey, we.

Jerica Richardson: Have. Yeah, yeah. He’s a great guy and always been that way.

David Martin: I want to bring it back to Cobb County and the work that you’ve done. Tell me something in the last few years that you’ve accomplished that you know, that really made a difference.

Jerica Richardson: And so there are a few things. One that really, you know, we’ve done some softer things, like working on making sure that duty to for teens can make it into veterans hands because there was a little bit of a slow up after the pandemic with the National Archives. And then on the other side of that, we worked in collaboration with the sheriff’s office and the DEA to really just to set aside within our prison pod for veterans as well, to make sure that they had access to the resources that they needed and some rehabilitation programs that they were promoted.

And we actually got a muralist to. She’s also a veteran, but she painted it was just a beautiful unveiling and something that the veterans and the president really appreciated as a part of saying, we do care about you, you’re not an afterthought. That was significant. Also stood up, supported an arts was known as the it’s a creative placemaking committee at this point that started off as a smaller thing.

But once people heard about it through all of the different arts communities around the county wanted to happen. So now there is a way for us to target all of the tourism activities around the arts, music, etc., and facilitate economic development along all of those different corridors. Certainly been a lot of.

David Martin: You were from New Orleans? Yeah. Are you a musician of any stripe?

Jerica Richardson: I actually, so. Okay. So part of the reason that I even got into into politics in Atlanta, like met the Atlanta political scene was through music. I used to sing.

David Martin: You used to.

Jerica Richardson: I used to try to break. I was trying to break into the music industry.

David Martin: Really.

Jerica Richardson: And a lot of a lot of entertainment.

David Martin: It’s what’s your what’s your music? So I genre.

Jerica Richardson: I rap hip hop and R&B. But I was trained in opera, of course. So it makes for a very interesting.

David Martin: Trade in opera.

Jerica Richardson: Yes.

David Martin: Have you performed at operas and sang?

Jerica Richardson: I’ve done private showings for like there were just a few companies that had events.

David Martin: So I’ll call you and.

Jerica Richardson: I’ll sing some arias or.

David Martin: Something. Wow.

Jerica Richardson: Yeah.

David Martin: No kidding. Yeah. Do you still do you keep up with it?

Jerica Richardson: Not as much, no. Not as much. I after college, I kind of abandoned it.

David Martin: Do they call you for baseball games to do impressions? Beautiful, or as.

Jerica Richardson: I have not told them, Although I did sing The Star-Spangled Banner for four hour at a rugby game, I wanted them to get some some press and.

David Martin: PR. So now see, you just you just said the magic words. We’re going to be here a while. Sorry about this. The reason why I might buy me is I had a knee replaced three weeks ago because after 42 years of rugby. Wow. Yes.

Jerica Richardson: But wow. So you’re moving around. That’s amazing.

David Martin: Very, very, very, very, very slowly by moving ground still. So you caught the ATL, a major league rugby game? I did. And you said I did. And who won?

Jerica Richardson: I don’t remember.

David Martin: I don’t remember. I think we did. We did. Was it this season of last season?

Jerica Richardson: This was when I first got elected.

David Martin: Okay.

Jerica Richardson: Yeah. So last.

David Martin: Season. Well, I’m sure they’d be happy to have you out again. I’m going to make some calls and make sure that happens. I know I need to do it. I know a couple of guys.

Jerica Richardson: We had a great time.

David Martin: Assuming that they figure out where you live and where your district is, do you see yourself having a future doing this?

Jerica Richardson: Oh, I love it. Every day is a blessing. Even though there are so many challenges, you wake up with the ability to open the door of access for so many people and and they trust you if you build their relationships the right way. And there’s really nothing better than that.

David Martin: So this is this this is something you think you have got a future with.

Jerica Richardson: I love.

David Martin: It. You do? I do. This has been a great conversation with Jessica Richardson, a county commissioner from Cobb County, Georgia. Thank you so much for stopping by. It’s been a pleasure to meet you and talk to you.

Jerica Richardson: Likewise. Thank you. And keep doing what you’re doing. This is fantastic and a wonderful mission.

David Martin: All right. We’re going to get you out to say thanks. Thank you. The good government show is sponsored by our CO. That means our community, our CO has found a way to make government even more effective. Article provides a platform that blends in-person and digital interactions and that connects people with their government. Their mobile app transforms meaningful conversations into reliable data, and the result is actionable insights that inspires a positive change.

It’s sort of like having a flagpole. Do you want to know if the community would rather have a dog park or a bike trail? Our coach can get you an answer immediately from the folks in your community. With our CO, you can engage your citizens or any group, learn what they want and build programs and policies that advance your county, your job creators and your constituents.

So visit our COCOM. That’s 0urco dot com and learn how they do it. And while you’re there, book a demonstration. Well, how about that? I accidentally get to meet a county commissioner and the singer of the Star Spangled Banner at the Atlanta Major League rugby game. How’s that for luck, huh? Well, as you heard, Jessica started by reading.

She looked to see what a county commissioner does and can do. And that really inspired her to run for her seat. Doing the research. Always a good way to start. Let’s hope she’s able to keep her seat and hopefully in the future I’ll get an invitation to one of those dinners and her mom’s gumbo. All part of a good conversation with Jessica Richardson, Cobb County commissioner.

Join me again on the Good Government show for another conversation with another government leader. I’m Dave Martin. Thanks for listening to the good government show. The Good government show and a conversation with is produced by Valley Park Productions, Jim Ludlow, David Martin and David Snyder are the executive producers. Our editor and producer is Jason Stershic. This is the Good Government show.

Thanks for listening.

**This transcription was created using digital tools and has not been edited by a live person. We apologize for any discrepancies or errors.